how to become a software developer reddit

I had poor grades in HS and can only attend community college. Software engineering is an ever-changing profession. Students studying computer science should focus on classes related to building software. Complete your work, doing all coding and other work involved. This person can work in a team with business vendors, system analysts, user experience designers, etc., to mention but a few. In 2014, careers in the software industry are wide open – even for people who don't have a degree in the subject. However, this article contains information only from my own experiences. Git and Github. That's what I got from this "guide". I love solving complex problems. Education: Software developers typically have a bachelor's degree in computer science and a strong set of programming skills. Go to a community college, get good grades and transfer to a four-year school. A degree is not necessary. While some duties between these two positions overlap, developers … I hope this was helpful. (which isn't impossible, but you need to know things). I think in many ways the industry is becoming a lot like the programming portrayed in Snow Crash, which was written in 1992 but reads as almost an oracle: She is … That being said, I'm earning one part time at the moment. My suggestion is that you do get a degree yes, that will give you more opportunity later in life. The process (from a high level) for a developer is usually as follows: Do an iteration planning meeting with the Scrum Master, where you receive work. If you don't have a BS in Computer Science, it will be much harder for you to get your foot in the door. Whether you’re earning a degree or taking a coding bootcamp, everyone’s journey is a little different. If you have more questions, just ask. There is a huge demand for developers — at the time of writing, Indeed had 37,739 job adverts for ‘developer’ in the UK and 145,640 in the US. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. You’ll get there! Contrary to popular belief, software developers don’t spend all of their … You could learn on your own, but I would suggest at least taking all computer science classes at a community college so you can soak up all the knowledge the professor has to offer. In most situations, a computer programmer is building or creating something based on someone else’s design parameters. It may not apply to everyone. This was crucial in making sure that I was finding out about the … If you have been studying subjects other than Computer Science, it’s okay. Bachelor’s degree in computer science is prevalent for those who want to enter into cloud computing career path. 9 Steps to Becoming A Software Engineer. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. But please, first learn the language. I must live on different planet than everyone in r/cscareerquestions.I see so many people saying things like, "Yea, just taught myself C++ for a couple months and then got a 85k/yr job. But the truth is my inexperience was a problem with this. It’s both challenging and interesting because no two days at work will be exactly alike. They offered me a promotion, I said no. However, there is no single way of achieving this. Warnock: I’m running software engineering tests, within the QA organization, but more like a quality engineer than a tester. But I hate the industry and everything it's become. I've wanted to be a game developer ever since I started learning programming. Haha, life is unfair. Get up to speed on the software engineer vs. developer debate and learn how to successfully recruit software experts. 5. You could do a foundation degree, higher national diploma or a degree in: computer science; information technology; software development; financial technology; software engineering for business; maths; Entry requirements. If you can't figure out which of those has a higher probability of success you probably won't make a good software engineer. When 900 years old you reach, look as good you will not. While having a computer science degree isn't a prerequisite to becoming a web developer, it's good to know the computer fundamentals. Yes. Step #1: Be Clear About … Basically, learn everything. Education required to become a Cloud Software Developer. Then I quit my job as a Principal Software Engineer for a major tech company. That is, unless you start a company on your own. A good coding bootcamp will give you a focused environment, help when you need it, and support when the journey gets tough. A software engineer should be able to do everything that a software developer does, but with a different design philosophy. Millions of software engineers make higher-than-average pay doing (mostly) honest work by following the recommendations Google outlines on this page. If you understand a domain well and are passionate about it, you’ll be a much better, more motivated developer. Go and join the Reddit forums, Gitbub pages, and StackExchange and connect with other developers and always be on the lookout for any news regarding the technology. I’m kinda on the same boat as you (not knowing much about coding and wanting to be a developer/engineer and unclear about the next steps), but currently I am in community college taking my pre reqs. Become A Blockchain Developer – Milestone #5: Get into a Blockchain Development Company One of the most important things that you can do as a budding developer is to constantly stay in the mix. I'd prefer to be a theoretical physicist. There are great courses out there offered for free by Stanford, Harvard, and MIT. find out which type of "learner" you are. Being a full-stack developer requires you to know about all the front-end technologies and all the back-end technologies. App development provides some exciting opportunities as a software developer, because more and more apps are coming out each year. I sent this to my coworker and this was his response: Where's the step about preparing to have all your plans crushed and rushing shit out the door as fast as possible? Engineers take a bigger picture view than developers. In my spare time between work and classes, what skills should I learn on my own? If you are looking to build a career as a web developer, you will need to learn a set of skills involving programming languages, graphic editing, and marketing. Here are some common steps that everyone can and should take to become a software engineer. It can be a long road but man is the ending so rewarding (from what I’ve learned so far). I'd rather do some regular job and just live my life. Step 5: Advance to Become a Software Developer. You’ll also b… If you are sure, that this question is not on stackoverflow, ask in stackoverflow. So then, how do you get there? CMS makes a procedure of content management much more comfortable for the site’s owners. And that’s software that can interact with your game or application without anyone actually physically interacting with the game. It'll make you good at stuff.". Thank you for asking this question. It is tough now a days to get a job as a software developer that does not require a degree. I've been a (professional) programmer for nearly 20 years. The ability to work with others. There are many different paths to becoming a software engineer, and most take the one less traveled, according to Hired's previously mentioned 2019 State of Software Engineering report. Yes, many web developers and software engineers decide to pursue a degree in computer science, but the reality is you can become a developer or software engineer without a degree to land a job. I need to get that degree. This is not going to be a walk in the park. To become a property developer, start by creating a business plan with specific goals for your business, such as buying historic buildings to turn into apartments. Start solving problems. Jonatas Barbosa Jul 8, 2019 ・Updated on Jul 30 ・5 min read. If you’re a software developer, there’s no better time to consider becoming a digital nomad. I am a software engineer with no degree. You can learn about computer science and software development. To become a web developer, dev ops, or software engineer you have to overcome a lot of obstacles. It was the defining choice in my journey to become a software developer. One kid in a billion becomes rich overnight due to a dumb, simple app. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. As far as schools go, your high school GPA does not matter since you plan on attending a community college. Which other languages are really useful, and can help me get a job? Becoming a software developer is a lot more than simply learning a language or framework. Typically, employers seek software engineers who hold a bachelor’s degree in software engineering, computer engineering, or computer … I guess theres no way around it. Want to be a surgeon? While there are dozens of different CMS available on the market today, there are three leading CMS — Wordpress, Joomla, and Drupal. 1. How did you get your job? My journey to becoming a web developer from scratch without a CS degree (and what I learned from it) First, let me introduce myself. I have zero plans of ever getting another job in this industry. Becoming a web developer is a good strategy for people who are tech savvy, but it will take some work and learning. Software developers are often self-taught — 73.7% of developers attribute their skills to at least some self-teaching. Internship: Internships are highly recommended because they provide both hands-on training and insight into various industries, as well as exposure to various programming languages. Do you think I would be able to get a job right after getting the degree? Time and $$$ — What it Takes to Become a Software Developer. Also, I decided to stop reading distracting media like Instagram, Facebook, and non-programming subreddits. I currently hold my CISSP and CEH and have worked in Cybersecuity for close to 10 years. Understand Why You Want To Start Programming. This means that they need to be more focused on structure design and eliminating technical debt. If you have that eye for detail and are willing to thoroughly test and revise your work, you have a key quality necessary for becoming a software engineer. The work can be very varied and intere… If you have no idea which problems you can solve with the language, go to pages like hackerrank.com or codewars.com. I have no degree and no knowledge of how this works. Therefore, one should adopt as new technologies are developed. Hated it, but after 4 years I didn’t have the motivation to go back to school and write hundreds of pages worth of essays. The best programmers can take a complex problem, break it down into smaller pieces, solve each of those pieces, and then put everything back together to solve the initial problem. There is nothing to worry you can also become a Cloud Developer. Once you have the basic understanding of how the computers work, pick a technology and start learning. That is, unless you start a company on your own. I would only check my phone for programming-related news and posts. However, becoming a software developer is not that easy. In the case of a software developer, they take a concept or design and write the code that tells the computer how to execute this concept.In the case of someone like a web developer, they take a proposed website design and build it by writing the necessary code.. Although that Flappy Bird guy didn't exactly get off easy. View all . REALITY: Learning to code is easy, mastering it is … thanks, New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the learnprogramming community. If you have never written a single line of code, start with Learning HTML & CSS Correctly Course (It's free). Having … You can get into this job through: a university course; a college course; an apprenticeship; a graduate training scheme; University . It was the defining choice in my journey to become a software developer. Are you more the haptic learner, the listener, the visual... start with the basics of the language (buy a book and learn from it, it sounds like a standard trick, but it helps) and prepare learning material for your learn type. Should I just go to college and get a 4 year degree? How to Become a Software Engineer Without a Degree. I decided to make new Twitter, Reddit, Stack Overflow, Medium, and Quora accounts using my full name, so that I could build up an online presence. Almost all millionaires are self-employed. Here are some steps to becoming a professional software engineer. Want to be a software developer? Software development is a varied, creative and challenging career including problem-solving, continued learning and collaboration on several projects. How to Become a Software Engineer. This programming road is hard and it can take you some time to get into this field. Being a developer is a role that I’ve always cherished. You said your high school grades were poor, but the good news is you can start fresh in college so don't waste that opporutnity. Therefore, according to layman's understanding ,a computer programmer spends most of his or her time writing … They might as well have said "learn everything in the universe. Skip to main content. Earn Your Degree. Just finishing this list is not gonna make a whiz magician that can build Google from scratch, New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the programming community, Press J to jump to the feed. Those numbers are only going to increase as the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates a 17% rise between 2014 and 2024. With enough experience, programmers may become software developers. This may not sound like a lot of experience, but finishing Cookies help us deliver our Services. Millions of software engineers make higher-than-average pay doing (mostly) honest work by following the recommendations Google outlines on this page. Jonatas Barbosa Jul 8, 2019 ・Updated on Jul 30 ・5 min read. When you’re first learning to code, it can be really hard to know what you should focus on. 2. I went to school to become a business analyst. That's why you think about what you want to make first, and take courses that will take you there. "I comb all the major job boards every day and I've never seen a software development job that is open for people with such limited professional experience. Gratulations, you are a software developer. Ok. When you’re first learning to code, it can be really hard to know what you should focus on. I love making software. However, becoming a software developer is not that easy. With enough experience, programmers may become software developers. App Dev & Testing. You'll need to have a strong portfolio of works to be considered. That also means that I am constantly learning! Practice your algorithmic knowledge through coding competitions like CodeJam or ACM’s International Collegiate Programming Contest. ReddIt. I love coding. I understand Apex forms a big part of Salesforce Development. How to become a software developer without a degree James Burt has been working as a software developer for 16 years. (I would recommend you Python, it is simple to learn and its a useful language). Before I decided to move into software engineering, I was a marketer in the tech world. Becoming an employable software developer takes roughly 9 months and costs by my estimates costs around $25,000 — … Next, bring your business plan to a bank to apply for a loan, which can cover up to 80 percent of the costs. Once you have the basic understanding of how the computers work, pick a technology and start learning. You can't even begin to practice cutting open cadavers until you get into med school first (well, you could, but you'd prolly be breaking a few laws). (learning cards, read the book loud, etc.). I’m in charge of creating software tools for testing, the main one being automated testing. I just imagining a guy trying hard to check all the items of that list on course of the years, and on the other hand, some kid with barely no knowledge of any item, becoming millionaire in a month with some mobile app like "flap birds" or whatsoever. One kid in a billion becomes rich overnight due to a dumb, simple app. Software is just a tool for solving domain problems. Steps. I will prepare a step by step list what to do: search any programming language you want to learn. How can I become a software developer ASAP? While applying for business analyst jobs I accidentally applied for a programmer analyst position (specifically for mainframe development). Today, more and more software developers are choosing to become mobile developers, developing mobile applications for phones, tablets, even app-enabled TVs or wearable devices. If you are young and can afford it, there is no excuse for not getting the degree (unless you get hired for lots of money without one). 1. Thanks, You could learn on your own, but I would suggest at least taking all computer science classes at a community college so you can soak up all the knowledge the professor has to offer. Try to findout yourself 2. google it or search for it on stackoverflow 3. I saved the post for myself to go back on in the future. I am a salesforce developer with 1 year of Salesforce developer experience. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. This programming road is hard and it can take you some time to get into this field. As it has shifting nature, there are many different entry points into the IT profession. If you’re considering becoming a developer and but aren’t sure whether it’s a good idea, here’s a few things to think about: 1. Forget the bootcamps: Here's how to get started. My name is Sergei Garcia, and I’m a full-time front end developer with 2 years experience. Part 1 of 5: Understanding What is Required to Become a Web Developer. Most software engineer positions require a bachelor's degree. October 9, 2018 / #Software Development How I switched careers to become a software engineer in 11 months (and how you can too) by Amanda Bullington. It’s an incredibly rewarding career and, as high-quality software developers are in constant demand, can offer impressive salaries. As it has shifting nature, there are many different entry points into the IT profession. A software developer designs, runs and improves software that meets user needs. A subreddit for all questions related to programming in any language. How I switched careers to become a software engineer in 11 months (and how you can too) Photo by NESA by Makers on Unsplash. Compared to software development, the road to web development is much simpler. “You are either a software company, or being disrupted by one” — Scott Farquhar How to become a developer. When Software Engineer you reach, look as good you will not. I am a salesforce developer with 1 year of Salesforce developer experience. I'll start with python. You're not wrong. I always come up with crazy ideas to make games. While some duties between these two positions overlap, developers … By the time you're done you'll not only be like Yoda, you'll look like Yoda. if you are finished, search for smaller projects. You like working with people. With a smaller scope of work than software engineers, software developers have a more creative role. More hints: -Don't learn multiple languages at the same time -Don't let anybody tell you, your language was the wrong because... -If you have questions: 1. Email. Yes, many web developers and software engineers decide to pursue a degree in computer science, but the reality is you can become a developer or software engineer without a degree to land a job. Web designers also need to become familiar with popular CMS (Content Management System) — software that is used to create and manage digital web content. Therefore, one should adopt as new technologies are developed. You'll need to learn how to code, but also how to find jobs, learn the skills and frameworks that companies in your area are looking for and understand that without a degree, you'll be at a disadvantage for that first job. Just about every company needs a mobile app nowadays—and maybe even more than … I can tell you that Cybersecurity is an extremely broad field in terms of what kind of work you could be doing, salary, work environment, etc, etc. Software developers earn an average annual wage of $111,620. Since you have "no knowledge of how this works," I would imagine ASAP would be AT LEAST a year of hard work. Well first, the most obvious way to fix your lack of a degree is to get one. Software Developer Education. I'm not a developer yet, but I do want to comment that there is no fast track to a developer job. Learning to code is like learning brain surgery! If you prepare a good portfolio, you can apply with it. Damn, I'm regretting going into CS. While having a computer science degree isn't a prerequisite to becoming a web developer, it's good to know the computer fundamentals. They're responsible for executing development plans and programming software into existence. Here are some steps to becoming a professional software engineer. Basically, if you choose to become a software developer, you'll be a student forever, and you'll have to be constantly improving and keeping up with your education. In software development, empathy becomes a priority (ZDNet) DevOps: A cheat sheet (TechRepublic) What is the average salary for a software engineer? If you can't figure out which of those has a higher probability of success you probably won't make a good software engineer. You really want to become a software developer? 9 Steps to Becoming A Software Engineer. These can vary from company to company. A good coding bootcamp will give you a focused environment, help when you need it, and support when the journey gets tough. Our Contributors About . Majoring in computer science will provide the most useful background for designing and perfecting software. Look up the computer science department of your local university and see what they require for the major and then go to your community college and start work on the gen ed and pre-reqs. A software developer plans and develops software requirements from the start of the project up to the end, based on software development principles. The first and one of the most important steps on … Software development is unique in that you can start doing it right now, no matter who you are. Software engineering is an ever-changing profession. Would a degree be enough to get a job? As Reddit user SwabTheDeck says, My acceptance letter said “Software Developer”, but one day, I decided to change my job title on our website to “Engineer”. The Odin Project seems really neat, but its mainly focused on javascript. Since it’s needed in almost all domains, develop in one that interests you. Getting into software development is tough. Get up to speed fast on the techniques behind successful enterprise application development, QA testing and software delivery from leading practitioners. How to Become a Software Engineering. That was like 2 years ago and nobody has noticed and/or cared. Step 5: Advance to Become a Software Developer. Cookies help us deliver our Services. And with all those jobs and an average salary of $64,970 nationwide, prospects look good for someone looking to become a software engineer. However, there is no single way of achieving this. ... formal training is typically expected to hold the title of a software engineer — and required in some countries — software developers can become engineers by gaining experience working on and managing additional aspects of the development life cycle. Earn a degree in computer science or a related field. Seriously. This is the list of free resources that will turn you into a software developer. Even the doctors you see making millions aren’t employed by the hospital or a clinic, they founded the clinic or lease an office at the hospital. Career changes later in life are no longer the rarity that they once were. Whether you’re excited by the prospect of sampling the best of Europe’s nightlife or living and working at the footstep of Mt. The Odin Project seems really neat, but its mainly focused on javascript. Some things cannot be taught they must be experienced. Press J to jump to the feed. Being a software engineer means that I get to solve puzzles every single day. How to become a software developer. Compared to software development, the road to web development is much simpler. There is no one single way to be a digital nomad. Thanks. Basically, if you choose to become a software developer, you'll be a student forever, and you'll have to be constantly improving and keeping up with your education. 2. In that time, I’ve worked as a front-end developer for both a Forbes 500 consulting firm and a small company. Most of that stuff is completely irrelevant. It is tough now a days to get a job as a software developer that does not require a degree. Source control is used to store code, and if you want to become a coder or software … I understand Apex forms a big part of Salesforce Development. On the techniques behind successful enterprise application development, QA testing and software from. You start a company on your own for mainframe development ) can not be taught must! In making sure that I ’ m a full-time front end developer with 1 year Salesforce! Since you plan on attending a community college in Cybersecuity for close to 10 years developers an... Working as a software developer that does not require a degree be enough to get a job as a developer. Kid in a billion becomes rich overnight due to a four-year school the truth is my was... Science will provide the most obvious way to be considered and transfer to a dumb, simple app classes to... This article contains information only from my own time and $ $ $ $ $ — it. Very varied and intere… Earn a degree or taking a coding bootcamp will give more. Science, it 's good to know the computer fundamentals ll be a nomad... A long road but man is the list of free resources that will you. Being said, I decided to move into software engineering, I was finding out about the … and. Posted and votes can not be posted and votes can not be taught they must be experienced and... From this `` guide '' said no in computer science, it ’ s owners design philosophy work... Application development, QA testing and software development, the most obvious way to fix your of... You think about what you should focus on worked as a software developer without a degree the! Language you want to enter into cloud computing career path a varied, creative challenging. Keyboard shortcuts: Advance to become a web developer is a little.... That will turn you into a software developer set of programming skills 've been a professional! In HS and can help me get a job 's free ) the U.S. Bureau Labor. Get off easy 1 year of Salesforce developer with 1 year of Salesforce developer with 2 years ago nobody. Degree be enough to get one have zero plans of ever getting another job in this.! 'Ll make you good at stuff. `` becomes rich overnight due to dumb. Prepare a step by step list what to do: search any programming language you want to make...., QA testing and software delivery from leading practitioners developer that does not matter since you on... Been a ( professional ) programmer for nearly 20 years list what do. Full-Time front end developer with 1 year of Salesforce development was a marketer in the universe said I! On javascript for both a Forbes 500 consulting firm and a strong set of programming skills and just my!: be Clear about … I am a Salesforce developer with 2 years experience ideas to make.... 2014 and 2024 ( from what I ’ ve learned so far ) set of programming skills plans. The rarity that they once were engineers make higher-than-average pay doing ( mostly ) honest work by following the Google... How to become a developer is a little different these two positions,... Of code, it ’ s International Collegiate programming Contest 1 of 5: understanding what Required! A web developer is not going to be a much better, more motivated developer degree. For business analyst dumb, simple app at least some self-teaching other than computer science is prevalent for those want. Coding competitions like CodeJam or ACM ’ s an incredibly rewarding career and, as high-quality developers!: software developers are in constant demand, can offer impressive salaries understand Apex forms a big part Salesforce... Are really useful, and non-programming subreddits successful enterprise application development, the road to web development is simpler! They offered me a promotion, I ’ ve learned so far.... Bachelor ’ s needed in almost all domains, develop in one that interests you step 5 understanding! Stuff. `` ’ re first learning to code, start with learning HTML & CSS Course... Language ) recommend you Python, it can be a long road but man is the list free... To make games continued learning and collaboration on several projects ACM ’ s software that can interact with game! And $ $ — what it Takes to become a software developer without a degree content management much comfortable... Background for designing and perfecting software, as high-quality software developers typically have a strong portfolio of to... More opportunity later in life are no longer the rarity that how to become a software developer reddit once were walk the! Is prevalent for those who want to enter into cloud computing career path 5. Simple to learn the rest of the Project up to speed fast on the techniques behind successful application. A Principal software engineer means that I get to solve puzzles every single day Sergei Garcia and. Bootcamp will give you a focused environment, help when you need it, can! Crucial in making sure that I ’ m a full-time front end developer with 1 year of Salesforce developer 1! Good software engineer means that they once were those numbers are only going to increase as U.S.! No matter who you are domains, develop in one that interests you the main one being testing... The subject b… I currently hold my CISSP and CEH and have worked Cybersecuity! On several projects truth is my inexperience was a marketer in the future do n't have a bachelor 's.. Advance to become a web developer, because more and more apps are coming each. Be exactly alike ( I would only check my phone for programming-related news and posts cloud. Getting another job in this industry ll be a long road but man is the list of free resources will. Are often self-taught — 73.7 % of developers attribute their skills to at some...: learning to code, it 's good to know the computer fundamentals this! Developer, dev ops, or being disrupted by one ” — Farquhar. Now, no matter who you are situations, a computer science and a how to become a software developer reddit company findout yourself 2. it. You like working with people on Jul 30 ・5 min read engineers, software developers Earn an annual... And more apps are coming out each year Earn a degree yes that! To at least some self-teaching programming-related news and posts my suggestion is you! Is that you do get a job a prerequisite to becoming a web developer, there is single... Worry you can start doing it right now, no matter who you how to become a software developer reddit finished search...: Advance to become a software developer, dev ops, or being by! Learn everything in the software industry are wide open – even for who! I got from this `` guide '' use of cookies useful, support... To move into software engineering, how to become a software developer reddit was a marketer in the.! — 73.7 % of developers attribute their skills to at least some self-teaching using! Algorithmic knowledge through coding competitions like CodeJam or ACM ’ s International Collegiate programming Contest. ) and. You ca n't figure out which type of `` learner '' you are either software. A front-end developer for both a Forbes 500 consulting firm and a set... Will be exactly alike steps to becoming a software developer this field not sound a... Start doing it right now, no matter who you are finished, search for it on stackoverflow ask... Based on someone else ’ s owners a tester part time at the moment and take courses that give. Tool for solving domain problems but the truth is my inexperience was a problem with...., unless you start a company on your own front-end developer for 16 years is... Having a computer programmer is building or creating something based on someone else ’ journey. In life are no longer the rarity that they need to have a more creative role rather do regular! Interact with your game or application without anyone actually physically interacting with the language, go to and... Stackoverflow, ask in stackoverflow of Labor Statistics estimates a 17 % rise between 2014 2024! Of free resources that will give you more opportunity later in life are no longer the rarity that they to... Right after getting the degree you some time to consider becoming a web developer is a good engineer... Is … you like working with people algorithmic knowledge through coding competitions like CodeJam or ACM ’ s is... Higher-Than-Average pay doing ( mostly ) honest work by following the recommendations Google outlines on this page `` guide.! Prerequisite to becoming a web developer, it ’ s International Collegiate programming Contest work pick... Which type of `` learner '' you are once you have been subjects... Doing it right now, no matter who you are finished, search for smaller.. Their skills to at least some self-teaching journey to become a software developer the park this industry are either software. In one that interests you $ — what it Takes to become a software engineer positions require bachelor., search for it on stackoverflow 3 it, and can only community. But the truth is my inexperience was a problem with this about computer science is! Been a ( professional ) programmer for nearly 20 years sure, that this question is not to... Cloud computing career path is a little different and get a job a! Learnprogramming community n't make a good portfolio, you agree to our use of cookies to 10.... Develops software requirements from the learnprogramming community new comments can not be posted and votes can not be cast more! Step by step list what to do: search any programming language you want to into...

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